1. Executive Summary
Your concern is justified. The testing process drifted into “find a reason not to promote” rather than running a fair promotion bracket. Conditions were mixed across temp 0 vs temp 1, proxy :8083 vs direct :18081, MTP variants, and 20-case vs stress-order vs full suite — then artifacts were often pruned after single-pass gates.
Anchors, probes, overlays, deleted APEX rejects
blk44 q4_K · AGENTKV · all-K/V q5
lateKV35 · APEX K-protected
Clear collapses or size-dominated losses
blk44 q4_K,
AGENTKV, all-K/V q5, and lateKV35.
2. Reopen Priority
blk44 ffn_down → q4_K
Best same-route hard-slice lead (85/85/85). Never fairly rejected — only delayed. Full TE 89/88/89, Hermes 84/81, native TG ~tied with QualityPlus.
AGENTKV
Best full Tool Eval (91/90) at only +68 MiB. Demoted for route/temp confounding (8083 / temp 0), not a clean same-test loss. Needs fair direct full suite.
all-K/V q5
Session audit itself called this over-rejected. Beat QP 20-case (78 vs 72), passed TC-60, very fast median (~3153 ms). Artifact deleted prematurely.
lateKV35
Full TE 88, sentinel 88/100, only +10 MiB. Later “rebuild weak” used mixed routes; should not have been final-killed.
APEX K-protected
Full TE 89, best native TG ~27.01. Later temp=1 collapse needs fair same-route repeat, not discard. Larger (~86G).
APEX edge FP4 · blk42 q4_K
Edge: best Hermes (86), larger. blk42: 20-case 80 still beats QP 72; rejected only for losing to blk44.
3. Process Failures
3.1 Single-pass kill + prune
all-K/V q5beat QP hard-slice (78vs72), passed TC-60, fast median — still deleted. Later labeled over-rejected.lateKV35full TE88with only +10 MiB pruned; rebuild under different conditions then used as final proof.
3.2 Route / temp confounding
| Run type | Typical setup | Who it favors in notes |
|---|---|---|
| Old full TE “wins” | often 8083, temp 0 |
AGENTKV 91/90 |
| Hard 20-case | direct 18081, temp 1, thinking |
blk44 85, QP 72, AGENTKV 70 |
| Stress-order | long ordered prefix | QP 87 vs blk44 81–84 |
These were treated as interchangeable “quality.” They are not.
3.3 Asymmetric burden of proof
- Candidates needed multi-gate perfection.
- QualityPlus kept default status with one stress-order pass and known hard-slice losses (TC-60/61 etc.).
- blk44 was held back for failing things QP also fails, or for losing a single stress style.
3.4 Speed under-measurement
- Most rejects skipped comprehensive speed sweeps.
- Hybrid’s
39.49decode clue was discarded with the model (quality collapse was real; speed axis was never systematically mapped). - AGENTKV never got a formal speed sweep despite being a top contender.
- VRAM almost never recorded as live usage — only disk size / rare GTT cliffs.
3.5 Language collapse: “rejected” vs “not promoted”
blk44 was KEEP / finalist in the ledger, but conversationally treated like “no candidate.” That is how a strong lead disappeared from the mental scoreboard.
88+), strong Hermes full (84+), a unique safety/loop win,
or a meaningful speed+quality lead. Those become “repeat required” leads.
4. Master Catalog
Scores use the session’s own labels. Blank cells mean not recorded / not run. Reopen? is the independent recommendation after re-reading reject rationale.
4.A Anchors / baselines
| # | Model | Size (MiB / BPW / Δ) | Quality | Speed / MTP | Status / reason | Reopen? |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | QualityPlus (anchor) | 83726.08 / 3.57 / baseline |
Hermes 85/82/79; TE 88/88/90; direct temp1 20-case 72/72; stress 87 (106/122) |
Served MTP n_max=2 p_min=0.75: TG ~29.97/29.39/28.58/26.26 @ 2k/4k/8k/16k; burst 4k 31.46; native TG ~26.x |
KEEP Conservative anchor | Control only |
| 2 | Upstream APEX-I-Compact | ~85G | TE 88; Hermes 77; fatal HA-05 loop |
— | REJECT Larger, worse Hermes, fatal loop | No |
| 3 | APEX K-protected | 87313.55 / 3.72 / ~86G |
TE 89; Hermes 81/78; later direct hard-slice 65 + TC-03 loop |
Best native TG ~27.01 |
KEEP→demoted Direct collapse needs fair repeat | P1 Yes |
| 4 | APEX edge FP4 | 86368.55 / 3.68 / ~85G |
Hermes 86/79; TE 87/87 |
LC-rescue sweep n_max=2 p_min=0.45: 4k 28.84, 16k 26.89 |
KEEP/test Not compact replacement | P2 Maybe |
4.B Early APEX “deleted obvious rejects”
| # | Model | Size | Quality | Speed | Reject reason | Reopen? |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5 | LC-rescue APEX edge (older) | 86248.71 / 3.67 |
Hermes 75 |
— | Larger, worse Hermes, no TE win | No |
| 6 | APEX early FP4 | 87043.55 / 3.71 |
Hermes ~83/73; HA-17 50 |
— | Larger than edge/lategate, weaker evidence | No |
| 7 | APEX mid 35–39 q4 | 90013.55 / 3.83 |
HA-07 30; full TE 86 |
non-MTP HA-07 also 30 | Size/value reject after non-HA testing | No |
| 8 | APEX tail 15–44 q4 | oversized | HA-07 0 / cache0-u512 30 | 64k Vulkan/GTT fit cliff | Too large / memory-unfit | No |
| 9 | APEX late gate/up FP4 (pre-QP) | 86863.55 / 3.70 |
TE 88; Hermes 83 |
— | Dominated vs QP/edge on size+quality | No |
| 10 | latedown1Q4 (Apex late-down → q4) | 83906.08 / +180 MiB |
TE 86; Hermes 82 |
4k TG 25.60 vs QP 28.30; 16k 26.03 vs 26.12 |
Larger + slower + worse TE/Hermes | No (fair) |
4.C QualityPlus-family tensor probes
| # | Model | Recipe Δ | Size | Quality | Speed / MTP | Stated reject | Reopen? |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 11 | late gate/up FP4 40–44 | blk40–44 gate/up → q4_0_rocmfp4_fast | 85076.08 / +1350 MiB |
TE 87; Hermes 84; sentinels 50 |
not a speed win | Larger; TE below QP; no TC-60/HA-07 fix | No |
| 12 | output/token → q6_0_rocmfpx | only out/tok promote | 84009.30 / +283 MiB |
TE sentinel 38; HA-17 loops |
skipped full | Loops + bad sentinel | No |
| 13 | AGENTKV | K/V 0–21 q6_K, rest K/V q5_K; Q/O+FFN q5_K | 83794.46 / +68 MiB |
TE 91/90; Hermes 76/83/81; direct temp1 20-case 70/70 |
median 6102.9 ms; no formal speed sweep | KEEP but demote: Hermes worse; TE win route-confounded | P0 Yes |
| 14 | AGENTKV-lite | only early K/V 0–21 q6_K | 83771.46 / +45 MiB |
20-case 62; Hermes sentinel 50 |
none before prune | Lost AGENTKV tool signal | No |
| 15 | attn_gate → q6_0_rocmfpx | gate-only | 83731.85 / +5.77 MiB |
TE sentinel 62; Hermes sentinel 50 | none | Cheap negative control | No |
| 16 | lateKV35 | K/V 35–44 → q5_K | 83736.08 / +10 MiB |
sentinel 88/100; full TE 88; rebuild direct 68 / proxy 57 | TG 26.00; PG 198.61/249.31/280.66 |
Reject/prune; audit: “tool lead,” not trash | P1 Yes |
| 17 | lateKV22 | K/V 22–44 → q5_K | 83749.08 / +23 MiB |
sentinel 88; full TE 80 |
none | Full-suite drop vs lateKV35 | No |
| 18 | all-K/V q5 | all attn K/V → q5_K | 83771.08 / +45 MiB |
20-case 78 (then rebuild 70); passed TC-60 |
median 3153.4 ms (vs QP 5722.5) |
Over-rejected; artifact deleted after one pass | P0 Yes |
| 19 | front-q6 mid-q5 no-tail | 0–21 q6, 22–34 q5, tail q4 | 83784.46 / +58 MiB |
20-case 57; TC-60 fail |
4k 25.57 / 16k 23.59 decode | Quality collapse + slower | No |
| 20 | late-routed hybrid | late 40–44 down q4_K + gate/up FP4 | 85976.08 / +2.20 GiB |
20-case 55 |
single 4k decode 39.49 (clue only) |
Huge size, quality collapse | No |
| 21 | front-q6 tail-q5 | 0–21 q6, 35–44 q5, mid q4 | 83781.46 / +55 MiB |
20-case 68 |
single 4k 25.37 | Below QP/AGENTKV | No |
| 22 | AGENTKV + gate/up FP4 40–42 | AGENTKV + gate/up 40–42 | 84604.46 / +878 MiB |
20-case 62 |
prompt 181.78 / predicted 31.25 (rough) | Quality regression + size | No |
| 23 | all-K/V q5 + q6 trans 18–21 | allkvq5 + 18–21 q6 | ~+50 MiB class | 20-case 62 |
median ~3103 ms | Collapsed vs allkvq5 lead | No |
| 24 | AGENTV | V-side only of AGENTKV | 83760.27 / +34 MiB |
20-case 60 |
median 6315.2 ms | V alone not the signal | No |
| 25 | AGENTK | K-side only of AGENTKV | 83760.27 / +34 MiB |
20-case 72 (=QP); recovers TC-47/61 |
median 6275.4 ms | Non-candidate as model; K-direction clue | Clue only |
4.D Step-imatrix routed-down family
| # | Model | Recipe | Size | Quality | Speed / MTP | Stated status | Reopen? |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 26 | blk44 ffn_down → q4_K | Step imatrix peak tensor only | 83906.08 / +180 MiB |
20-case 85/85/85; TE 89/88/89; Hermes 84/81; stress 81–84 vs QP 87 |
native TG 26.17; PG 204.36/254.92/288.32 |
KEEP finalist not full-suite winner | P0 Yes |
| 27 | blk44 → q4_0_rocmfp4_fast | same tensor, FP4 not K | 83861.08 / +135 MiB |
20-case 70 |
— | FP4 ≠ q4_K here | No |
| 28 | blk42 q4_K swap | Apex-vs-Step disagreement | 83906.08 |
20-case 80 |
TG 26.10; PG 202.79/253.92/280.51 | Weaker than blk44; not faster | P2 Maybe |
| 29 | blk44 q4_K + lateKV35 | both overlays | 83916.08 |
20-case 68 |
TG 26.07; PG 181.60/263.55/295.34 | Worse than either parent | No |
| 30 | AGENTKV + blk44 q4_K | combined frontier | 83974.46 / +248 MiB |
20-case 70 |
no speed clue | Broke async/state-chain strengths | No |
| 31 | blk44 + lateK35-only | K-only late35 | 83911.08 |
20-case 65 |
TG 26.22; PG 206.13/257.19/295.23 | Recovers TC-61 not TC-60 | No |
| 32 | blk43+blk44 q4_K | broaden late-down | 84086.08 / +360 MiB |
20-case 62 |
TG 24.45; PG 187.16/251.56/295.03 |
Damages robustness that made blk44 good | No |
5. Detailed Model Cards
Filter by reopen priority:
13. AGENTKV
KEEP contender P0 reopen18. all-K/V q5
REJECT → corrected UNRESOLVED P0 reopen26. Step-imatrix blk44 ffn_down → q4_K
KEEP · same-route finalist P0 reopen · leading candidate16. lateKV35 (K/V layers 35–44 → q5_K)
REJECT → diagnostic / HOLD P1 reopen3. APEX K-protected control
KEEP/test → demoted P1 reopen4. APEX edge FP4
KEEP / test more P2 optional28. Step-imatrix blk42 q4_K swap
REJECT relative to blk44 P2 maybe25. AGENTK (K-side isolation)
REJECT as model Clue onlyFair rejects (do not reopen)
No reopenThese either collapsed clearly on same-route gates, were size-dominated, or introduced loops/memory cliffs:
- APEX-I-Compact — HA-05 fatal loop; Hermes 77
- Early APEX bulk rejects — early FP4, mid35–39 q4, tail15–44 q4 (GTT cliff), LC-rescue edge Hermes 75
- latedown1Q4 — TE 86, Hermes 82, slower 4k TG 25.60 vs QP 28.30
- late gate/up FP4 40–44 — +1350 MiB, TE 87
- output/token q6_0_rocmfpx — TE sentinel 38, HA-17 loops
- AGENTKV-lite, attn_gate q6 — sentinels ~62 / Hermes 50
- lateKV22 — full TE 80 after broader K/V
- front-q6 variants, hybrid, AGENTKV+gateup, allkvq5+trans, AGENTV — clear collapses
- blk44 FP4, blk44+lateKV*, AGENTKV+blk44, blk43+44 — interaction / broadening negatives
6. blk44 Runtime Matrix (MTP sweeps)
These are runtime controls on the same weights, not new quant recipes. This is where dismissal got especially harsh.
| Control | Score | Detail | Valid passes |
|---|---|---|---|
| QualityPlus stress-order baseline | 87 | 106/122 | 1 only |
| blk44 normal MTP (n_max≈2) | 81 | 99/122 | 1 |
| blk44 no-MTP | 82 | 100/122 (invalid 401 run scored 11 — ignore) | 1 valid |
| blk44 MTP n_max=1 | 84, 83 | best blk44 stress runtime | 2 |
| blk44 MTP n_max=1 p90 | 80 | — | 1 |
blk44 q4_K.
Stress variance under different MTP settings is not a reject — it is “not yet a clean promotion.”
Best experimental promotion path: blk44 + MTP n_max=1.
7. Corrected Ranking (Post-Audit)
- Replacement lead: Step-imatrix
blk44 ffn_down → q4_K(especially MTPn_max=1) - Tool-state lead:
AGENTKV(needs fair direct full suite at temp 1) - Unresolved compact clue:
all-K/V q5(rebuild + same-route repeats) - Low-cost diagnostic lead:
lateKV35 - Speed/TE curiosity: APEX K-protected (if size budget allows)
- Conservative default only: QualityPlus
8. Practical Reopen Plan
Do this
- Keep/rebuild live: blk44 q4_K — fair final bracket: same route, same temp, full TE + Hermes + stress-order, MTP n_max=1 and n_max=2, vs QP.
- Rebuild: AGENTKV — full TE + Hermes on direct 18081 temp1 only (ignore old 8083 as promotion evidence).
- Rebuild: all-K/V q5 — 20-case ×3 + full TE + native TG/PG + served MTP (clearest process error).
- Optional: lateKV35 — cheap; only if (2)/(3) need K/V localization.
Do not rebuild
- Hybrid / gate-up stacks
- output/token q6
- attn_gate q6
- blk43+44 broadening
- AGENTKV+blk44 overlay
- blk44+lateKV combos
Unless a new case-level hypothesis appears. Interaction space is hostile; next builds should stay single-variable.
9. Additional Insights
ROCmFPX is the body, not the repair
Best new signal is selective escape from FPX (blk44 down → q4_K), not more FPX everywhere. Direct FP4 replacement on the same tensor fell to 20-case 70.
K-side > V-side
AGENTK ≈ QP total (72); AGENTV collapses to 60. Attention key fidelity carries more of the tool-state signal than value alone.
Combining winners usually destroyed them
AGENTKV+blk44, blk44+lateKV, blk43+44 all regressed. Interaction space is hostile; prefer single-variable next steps.
Imatrix source matters
Step imatrix → blk44; Apex-era path → blk42. blk42’s 80 is still a real lift over QP hard-slice — not a waste signal.
MTP is a stability axis
n_max=1 helped blk44 stress; broader MTP did not create a weight win. Treat MTP knobs as runtime A/B, not as quant recipe proof.
Prune policy was too aggressive
Recipes/profiles remain for many deleted shards, but rebuild cost is high. Guardrail written after the damage: don’t final-reject/delete on one pass when same-route control is beaten.
Hard-slice scoreboard (direct temp1 20-case)
| Model | Score | Notes |
|---|---|---|
| blk44 q4_K | 85 / 85 / 85 | Best same-route hard slice |
| blk42 q4_K | 80 | Still > QP; weaker than blk44 |
| all-K/V q5 (first) | 78 | Over-rejected; beat QP |
| QualityPlus | 72 / 72 | Anchor control |
| AGENTK | 72 | = QP total; different case mix |
| AGENTKV direct | 70 / 70 | Route-confounded vs old full TE 91 |
| blk44 FP4 / AGENTKV+blk44 / allkv rebuild | 70 | Not promotion material alone |
| front-q6 tail-q5 / lateKV rebuild / blk44+lateKV | 65–68 | Below anchor |
| AGENTKV-lite / attn_gate / overlays / blk43+44 | 55–62 | Clear collapses |
10. Source & Scope Notes
- Primary source: Codex session JSONL
codex-session-step37-candidate-audit-019f3803-6f3a-70d2-ae4e-92ae18d097a9.jsonl - Frontier ledger path (remote machine):
/home/crown/bench-results/quality/step37-existing-artifact-frontier-20260706.md - Recipes / logs:
/home/crown/bench-results/llama/step37-lc-rescue-20260706/ - Profiles:
/home/crown/machine-setup/model-profiles/step3.7-flash-rocmfpx-q3-*-mtp-64k.env - Metrics caveat: Live VRAM/GTT was not systematically captured; sizes are quant disk footprints unless noted as GTT fit failure.
- Reopen labels are independent judgments based on the session’s own recorded scores and the session’s later self-corrections about unfair rejection.